For Context: I’m Chinese American, and I do not feel “ashamed” for my heritage, neither do I feel “ashamed” for being a US Citizen.

The CCP is not my fault. I do not feel any shame of saying I’m from China.

Similarly, the trump admin is not my fault, I voted Harris. I do not feel any shame for being American.

So what is the thought process of people feeling shame/guilt?

  • Invertedouroboros@lemmy.world
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    2 hours ago

    Part of the social contract in America (at least… this is what I believed growing up here) is that we all kinda share in this thing we all have going. Like, let’s say we get into a war. The government can (and does) ask citizens to join the military and fight and the reason that works is because we all kinda implicitly signed off on it. Yeah, sure, you had nothing to do with the country getting into a war. But because you participated in government, in the system, because we run this thing (nominally) by the standard of democracy and consent of the governed, everyone owns at least a small part of the responsibility for the country’s actions. In the case of a war, that might look like joining the military and “doing your part”. More commonly it looks like paying your taxes and still “respecting” the government, even if it’s not the one you voted for.

    Now, like I said, that’s more than anything what I felt when I was a kid. Speaking personally, I’m in a very different headspace now as it relates to governance. I also feel like generally speaking all that’s shifting, though I’ve very little to back that up save… gestures at the past couple of decades of American politics.

    More to your question however, I think that the kind of social contract I laid out above kinda explains some of what you’ve asked. Even if you want to say it’s purely performative, that’s fine. But the fact that Americans are “asked” about how they should be governed implicitly puts the idea in our heads that we’re responsible for what our country is doing. It’s not just “some dottering old idiot at the top of the org chart decided this thing”, it’s we. America is doing this thing. Even if the truth really is that some dottering old fool made a decision out of personal ambition or greed. We get it drilled into our heads from a very young age that this is our government. And no matter how much you try to distance yourself from that… it still irks you, somewhere in the back of your head.

    Maybe, at some point before I was born, that was expressed as a point of pride. I could see some folks being proud of what America was or what it stood for, once upon a time. Now though? I find it hard to believe that that mindset could find any other expression but shame. And weirdly, I believe that’s true regardless of what your politics are. Different reasons are at play there depending on what your politics are, of course. But lately it feels like everyone’s got some grievance against the government. Some reason to feel ashamed about what “our” government, what “we” are doing. Whatever that thing is for you, you don’t want it being done in your name. But the central trick of American “democracy” is that you don’t get to just walk away. Whatever is being done is being done “in your name” whether you want it or not. And it’s been that way since before you were born.

    A tangentially related correlate here is that I feel like a lot of Americans don’t feel represented by their government anymore. I certainly don’t feel that way, and I haven’t since Obama was president. That was roughly back when I was young enough to uncritically believe some of the views I’ve expressed here. Things have changed a little bit. Anyways, the reason I bring this up is because part of what I think is going on is that the social contract is breaking down along the lines of nobody feeling like the government they have is actually representing their interests. Maybe, if this goes on for long enough, the social contract will change into something different entirely. Maybe this “shame” we all seem to feel will turn American society into something different than what it currently is, if it’s given the time to do so. But, I can’t really read the tea leaves on that one. All I know is things just can’t keep going the way their going. Something’s gonna break eventually.

  • mojofrododojo@lemmy.world
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    3 hours ago

    in my own case, it’s that I’ve (not intentionally but still) benefited from a system that subjugated others (natives, people of all colors, and women) to secure the national infrastructure I’ve directly profited from. Everything from education, clean water and housing, to medical care often shockingly focused on what ails and heals white males. And the sickening knowledge that the same ones who want to deport taxpaying workers who rarely benefit from the enormous amounts of money our country throws around are the same as me, living on land stolen from the people who lived here, who we basically exterminated. Finally, we use the trappings of a pseudo-democracy to declare all men are equal, but really, they mean wealthy heteronormative white men, because otherwise you’re the other and disenfranchisement should be expected.

    That’s-just-the-way-it-is? only if you accept it.

  • MangioneDontMiss@feddit.nl
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    5 hours ago

    I don’t know about others but I imagine for a lot its just guilt by association. I’ve definitely been feeling it for a while.

    I also think a lot of people feel bad about their tax money going into the pockets of so many evil people for so many evil purposes. One of the reasons I personally stopped paying taxes. I wish my fellow Americans would join me on that end, but it isnt easy.

  • arnitbier@sh.itjust.works
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    6 hours ago

    Because you are enjoying the fruits of all the evil/bad/indifference without doing stuff to prevent it and probably underhandedly excusing it

    Its funny, so much of this excuse is “well I didn’t do it myself so standing here and watching isn’t making me responsible morally lol” but it does indeed

    So mostly its because your very likely taking advantage of the situation and you know you shouldn’t and you SHOULD be shouldering the burden instead

    Its kinda morally reprehensible no matter the justification you sell yourself

    It sucks (the situation) and yeah that makes people fell bad

  • ilinamorato@lemmy.world
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    11 hours ago

    Speaking only for myself: because the American government has, for 250 years, claimed to act on behalf of the American people. When it was liberating concentration camps and sending people to the moon, that was something to be proud of.* When it was upholding slavery and winking at Jim Crow laws, it wasn’t.

    It’s a government “of the people, by the people, and for the people,” and so he purports to speak and act on my behalf. That’s deeply embarrassing and shameful, even if I couldn’t have done anything differently to prevent it.

    * (Yes, I know that even those “good” examples are complicated. I’m just forming an example here)

  • ameancow@lemmy.world
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    14 hours ago

    There’s a huge difference between being ashamed of your Government’s actions and behavior and being ashamed of who you are/where you were born.

    One is a valid criticism of the ruling class ignoring the people’s desire for peace and social responsibility. The other is a mental health issue much like some people who are ashamed of the race or gender they were born as.

    I get attacked by people unable to separate this conflation because I encourage people resistant to our government to pick up the goddamn American flag and wave it. To have some measure of pride in the institution we live in so others take it seriously when we demand improvement.

      • mojofrododojo@lemmy.world
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        3 hours ago

        I think it becomes shame because we recognize we’ve benefited from the system that has shit all over so many. Even indirectly, it’s hard to think about all the ways I’ve benefited from - just to say one thing - all the cheap open land (places like texas, nebraska, oklahoma, OR & WA) we got after putting the natives in concentration camps and murdering most of them.

        Like, I try to enjoy a national park but then realize: this was someone’s home. Many peoples, in fact. We took it, put up gates, and charge people to harass the animals. And that’s the places we’ve saved from industrial pollution and factory farming.

      • ameancow@lemmy.world
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        13 hours ago

        I genuinely feel like a lot of people don’t think very much about their feelings or where they come from, and end up with really mixed-up or inconsistent values.

        If you ask a lot of Americans why they feel the way they do about their country, negative or positive, they often become irritated or upset because most people just tie a lot of associations and emotions to other concepts and words. Which is fine, that’s how brains work. But I think if you’re involved in a democracy you should have some level of actual thought towards how you feel, what you want from your country and who should be representing those values. I can’t get people on either side of the political spectrum to care about any of that shit… which is why China will probably have the solar system in a generation.

        • China will probably have the solar system in a generation

          OMG I just had a thought.

          Remember what happened when Great Britain expanded and colonized stuff? 13 colonies?Independence?

          OMG wouldn’t it be cool if China did that to like Mars, then the Martian colonists be like, “no fuck you CCP”, then:

          Declaration of Independence

          United Provinces of Mars

          Constitution (hopefully a smarter constitution)

          Martian Revolution

          Becomes a Solar Superpower

          Chinese becomes the lingua franca of the solar system.

          Time is a circle lmao.

          Literally just The Expanse timeline, but without blue goo and Chinese becomes the lingua franca of the UN. LOL

          FOR MARS!

          火星联合众国

          • ameancow@lemmy.world
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            13 hours ago

            Look, whatever you have to do to keep Elon out of the place, I am fully supportive.

            Seriously though, I was watching a documentary on the International Space Station a few days ago and listening to how this major network was hyping up such a “huge American engineering challenge” and “doing the impossible as the world watched on” and I couldn’t help but grumble “China has made three stations in half the time and those are just practice for an actual series of much bigger projects.” Literally, America gets almost NO news on progress and achievements outside of the USA.

          • Soggy@lemmy.world
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            12 hours ago

            This is kind of the plot of Armored Core if you also made it a cyberpunk corporate dystopia.

  • percent@infosec.pub
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    10 hours ago

    American tech companies created algorithms that happen to boost videos and news articles of fringe/extreme occurrences that take place here. The mainstream news networks also prioritize content like that, for the same reason: It’s very profitable. Boring news/content just doesn’t make much money.

    People who have never visited the US seem to have a very distorted understanding of what everyday life is like here. We display a pretty embarrassing caricature of our country for the world to see.

    And to make things even more embarrassing, we made our government ridiculous, and made our politics become pop culture (yet also very tribal) over the last ~15 years.

  • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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    14 hours ago

    Because I look at my country and what it’s done and feel insufficient for my failure to keep it from doing stupid and evil things.

    Also the European and Canadian frustration with America and Americans is understandable, but it has an impact especially when you still think highly of those places and their people.

  • BanMe@lemmy.world
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    19 hours ago

    We were raised with “pride,” not necessarily racially or ethnocentric, but a broader sense that transcended such boundaries. I grew up in the 80s-90s in the midwest, and we were taught America was a “melting pot” of cultures, ideas, and races, and that we should look forward to a time when whites are not the majority because the lines will fall away, the average color will be brown as we all mix over the next generations, giving us less reason to fight. And we should look forward to it, because that’s been our story so far - broken, impoverished immigrants came here looking for opportunity, and found it through hard work and smart thinking, and then became a part of our shared tapestry. We were taught to be proud of this, that we were stewards of this tradition in the best, most advanced country in the world.

    And now, well. The basest instincts of people have been brought to the surface and America now stands as an openly white nationalist, isolationist, fascist-tinged autocracy where the ideals I grew up with seem long antiquated.

    So yeah hard not to feel ashamed of what’s happened to our shared identity in just a few decades.

  • 1984@lemmy.today
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    14 hours ago

    I dont identify with my country. Im just a resource so they can collect taxes. I think their decisions are stupid and childish but its like watching babies trying to build a house.

    Best you can do is to focus on your own life.

    • Best you can do is to focus on your own life.

      Lol that’s why my parents say to me. That trying to change anything in politics is pointless, futile, that, in a hypothetical revolution, I’ll never get to live to see such a hypothetical victory…

      I mean I kinda get it, my parents don’t want their kids to die in some war…

      • explodicle@sh.itjust.works
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        11 hours ago

        Direct action my friend. Unionize, participate in mutual aid, opt out of their economy as best as you can. Wars are won by supply chains, not by dead idealists.

  • Crackhappy@lemmy.world
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    24 hours ago

    I grew up in Indonesia, my sister is from Java, my brother is from Singapore. I’m natively from California, and I’m a huge white boy. I am ashamed that the country of the free, the country of the brave who had bounteous arms to welcome the downtrodden and abused of the world is no longer that place. Instead it’s the land of the secret police, tbe land of a pedophile traitor president who can’t stand any kind of criticism because he’s a fucking coward who dodged military service.

  • tree_frog_and_rain@lemmy.world
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    20 hours ago

    Well this last election really broke me from thinking of myself as an American. I just happen to live here.

    Because the truth is our democracy is managed by oligarch propaganda. And our votes mean very little outside of local elections.

    A vote for Trump and a vote for Harris were both going to continue the harms of the MIC and the fossil fuel industry. Yes, Trump is an accelerant. And I voted not to add gasoline.

    But the fire was going to burn one way or the other.

    Anyway, I think folks that feel ashamed still believe that their voice matters. Which is by design of the political and business class.

    • czardestructo@lemmy.world
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      12 hours ago

      I feel similarly and to expand a bit its more the fact that second time around electing this fool proves that that majority of Americans are either horrible people or useful idiots which is incredibly depressing to know with certainty. For me, first time around was a fluke, second time is reality. I’m exploring citizenship elsewhere as a backup plan.

    • flamiera@kbin.melroy.org
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      18 hours ago

      With all of the attempts to dismantle voting booths and artificially mess with the results every freaking election, why even bother voting anymore?

      It’s like we tell the naysayers about voting as to why voting at all in America is pointless. But they still cling to some hope that they’re heard. Well guess what? When a candidate can still win by Electoral College despite the popular majority, that alone tells you how little your little voices mean. When an election can be won by stupid points.