The graphics are too expensive for AAA games? AAA means they are throwing the highest category budget for developing a game. And they ONLY invest in graphics, discarding the rest like a proper story (if any), decent characters, bug fixing, balancing, etc. Now they create junk only 1% of players with a 4090 can run somewhay decently on medium settings with 30fps average and loads of framedrops.
Wow guys, amazing, thanks I guess, this costed me 80 euros. Can’t you tone down the graphics by at least 60% and focus on the “game” part of the game instead?
There are plenty of titles that do just that you can buy instead you know.
Oh I do, I’m skipping all AAA games. I illegally download them out of curiosity, but often delete them after 30min of playtime. But it still gets me angry because it basically is a major scam. Luring in loads of people with cool looking videos, then to deliver a bug simulator with most content locked behind more purchases (DLC’s, loot boxes, subscriptions), completely unbalanced and abandoned after the fist sale period because fixing the bugs and balance doesn’t provide more income so might as well quit and start a new scam. And then the audacity to complain people should not expect Baldur’s Gate 3 to be a standard to compare other games to. Maybe do see it as a standard and try to create a properly working product with actual decent content worth it’s money?
All the best games I’ve played recently are deliberately low poly models, low res textures, and 100% focused on JUST satisfying gamefeel and fun gameplay mechanics.
Fuck graphical fidelity and fuck “AAA” studios for wasting our time and money on it.
I WANT SHORTER GAMES WITH WORSE GRAPHICS MADE BY PEOPLE WHO ARE PAID MORE TO WORK LESS AND I’M NOT KIDDING
I WANT SHORTER GAMES
Can I have my cake and eat it too? I want games with a short critical path, but satisfying ways to spend more time with it if it’s fun.
So like interesting NG+ stuff, boss rush modes, different builds, whatever.
built in randomizers please
Actually, on that point, I love it when a game becomes a platform for continuous content. Minecraft is a bit trite as an example but it fits: You buy it once, and you can beat it in a couple hours if you really want to, but you can extract as much enjoyment out of it as your imagination will allow, and the developers are constantly adding more stuff to do (although not all of what’s added feels great all the time…)
Absolutely on the shorter games. I just do not have time for 30 to 40 hour games anymore. 8 to 10 hours is the sweet spot for me. After that I get bored and the game feels like a drag.
Imo it feels like the content is not very fresh compared to when you played that first rpg/open world/etc. It just does not feel like these aaa studios are innovating anymore- I’m looking for compelling stories and tight gameplay loops but they’re feeding us rehashed side quests fillers and eye candy. Anyone feel like they’re just playing borderlands sequels where you’re constantly forced into a meaningless quest to do somebody’s bidding?
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I am soooo fucking sick to death of everything needing to be ‘open world’ (for some reason) that I could puke. Sure, some games may benefit from - or hell, even be downright enriched in some manner by - their use, but outside of a few, notable exceptions (Elden Ring and RDR1/2, in particular, spring to mind, for example) when I see a studio touting their “new and improved, expansive, X times bigger, blahblahblah” open world, all I can think is two things:
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There will almost certainly be no more than five types (and likely significantly less, tbh) of copy/paste activity I’ll be expected to engage in shotgunned haphazardly across the map. The studios that go ‘above and beyond’ MIGHT attempt to switch things up a bit by slightly altering building or adversary layouts in places, but that’s usually a ‘best case scenario’ kinda thing, and you’ll probably be fortunate to end up with some sort of palette swap. How compelling, eh?
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I’m going to be subjected to either a veritable fuckton of bland, faceless NPC’s with an equally bland line or two of ‘dialogue’ that is ultimately meaningless or a flimsy pretext to go over there somewhere for… reasons… or a handful or so of them that are inexplicably absolutely VITAL to (or otherwise the impetus behind) everything that is plot - which they have a flimsy pretext for, natch.
Look, I played WoW back in the day already. If I really desperately wanted to waste dozens of hours of my time delivering imaginary packages to forgettable people, or being sent in search of someone who is the only one who can help stop BBEG/the apocalypse/whatever - and will totally help, but need a favor first… Ugh - then I’d go back to the good ol’ WoW treadmill. I left that shit behind because I was sick of it all just feeling like checkmarks someone had to tick off somewhere to appease the C-Suite douchenozzles that don’t understand why we can’t add in a battlepass. (Those are SOOO hot right now!)
Tbh I don’t think you’re in the minority. By far there are so very few truly well done open worlds, but how many of them were anything like mass effect which tied the stories together and had actual ramifications? The time investment is so not worth running around their lifeless worlds accomplishing nothing; I really dislike open world games
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BUT HOW DO WE FORCE PEOPLE TO BUY OUR NEW CONSOLES?
That’s the fun part: you don’t! :D
That is to say, they tried. And now there are basically no fucking games on whatever they’re calling the latest X-turd, and barely anything worth note on the PS5.
You would think if anyone had any brains they wouldn’t want you to have to buy new consoles all the time. Aside from Nintendo, the hardware is usually a loss leader for the other major players and they make all their money on the licensing costs on the software, i.e. game sales, whereas they lose money every time a console ships out the door. Especially nowadays when the distribution is mostly digital and costs them practically nothing vs. the bad old days when they had to press discs and print labels and shit. Machine sales themselves have never been profitable at least for the first several years each system is out for the last several console generations.
It would be more profitable for Sony and Microsoft to keep you on the same console generation forever – with the inevitable falling cost of manufacturing the things, to boot – keeping it at the same MSRP and simply selling you more and more games for it.
Plus it would make their console sales numbers look really badass… eventually. “The Microsoft Xbox X One X S XS Series OneX S is the best selling video game console in history, selling 1.2 billion units over its 45 year life cycle, and counting!”
I guess that’s why they’re hoping that cloud gaming takes off, so that people “rent” consoles instead of owning anything
I don’t really think it should be “worse” or specifically low-poly. There is a balance that can be struck and I feel that accepting the lowest quality possible is an excuse for developers to put in as little work as possible while still charging us as much as possible.
you can make the most beautiful cake and its worth nothing if there is just sawdust inside
Yup, first and foremost, figure out your gameplay loops.
Get that right and you can pretty it all up later.
Then stop making games with cutting edge graphics. I just want to play it on a steamdeck anyway.
Honestly. I prefer games that don’t make the steam deck use its fans.
What games accomplish that?
Aside from indies or 2D games I guess.
Yeah, that’s basically it.
Risk of Rain, Dungeon of the Endless. I can play DRG Survivor at 80% scale without triggering the fan.
Whereas BG3 turns on the fans for the title screen.
Hades is great.
The problem is all the AAA publishers just keep increasing budgets to keep up. This creates a situation where games are so expensive they can’t take risks, so they just follow a formula and are boring and generic. That’s how we’ve gotten to where we are now. AAA games are failing because their budgets are too large. They need to make more smaller, interesting and unique games rather than one massive budget game.
I have essentially fully turned away from AAA personally. Thinking about it, I can’t actually tell you the last one I played. Indie games are where all the good stuff is.
The only AAA I play are Nintendo ones (and RTS/MOBA since its a niche genre and you need a community for PvP). Since quite some times already. But I only look out for indies, I love getting new experiences and gameplay.
And even when the gameplay is not new, the attention to details (gameplay wise) is at 1000% only on indies (Celeste, Hollow knight, Factorio, …)
Same! Maybe builders gate 3 but they kind of straddle the line between aaa and indie.
For real. I’m just having a blast playing Hades right now.
This is a totally reasonable request yup.
Shooters with beard hair that waves in the wind but gunplay that sucks and broken physics.
Nailed it. Here I am playing Celeste on Pico-8 and loving it. Gameplay matters before graphics. This is why Nintendo has a loyal following despite their litigious ways.
And hardware that’s GENERATIONS behind.
But also graphics doesn’t necessarily mean crazy 3d graphics, pick any game by supergiant and it’s gorgeous with beautiful music and fun gameplay.
Know what you’re willing to invest in and make design choices to reflect that.
People care about graphics.
But they care about other things more
So the graphics need to be in service to something.Imo the problem is that studios have become risk adverse because their budget is so big, so they pick an already popular IP, choose a marketable aspect of that IP, and spend that fortune turning the dial of that aspect up to 11.
Like X but bigger map
Like Y but more playable characters
Like Z but better graphics
Etc
But none of the time actually innovating any new player experience.And players are finally getting fed up with playing the same handful of AAA game experiences again and again with different titles.
Graphics just happens to be the marketable attribute they like to crank most often
What they need to do is throw some spaghetti at the wall, see what’s fun, then throw their hundreds of millions of dollars behind THAT.
People still love cult movies and other classics from 100 to 50 years ago, with handcrafted or minimal budget special effects, no CGI. It’s because it’s an entire art form and it can’t just be reduced solely to aesthetic appeal. That kind of approach is just a result of the commodification of art. You want to reduce a successful work of art to some quantifiable metric besides popularity/sales, so that you can create repeatable processes around producing it and selling it, and optimize them for cost, but art defies quantification. Even just basic “enjoyable gameplay” defies that.
This guy MBAs.
That should have come across as critical of the commodification.
It did. Not sure why they said that. And I agree with you 100%. In fact, the success of Minecraft and Roblox alone should show that sometimes paying attention to the graphics is not necessarily what a developer should be doing.
There is room for AAA games with mindblowing graphics, but there should also be room for AAA games where they focus on other features over worrying about how amazing the graphics are.
Maybe they’d do better if they tried selling games instead of games as a service and stores with a game attached.
The NYT article doesn’t mention that new AAA console games often cost $70. I have not bought a brand new game in years because I just can’t justify that cost. I have such a huge backlog between PS4 and PC, that there is just no reason to buy new games
I am betting, adjusted for inflation, that would not be especially higher than a new NES game.
It might even be cheaper.
That’s definitely true. Didn’t think about inflation. I still think $70 is a lot more than the many other ways to play, including inexpensive older games, Steam sales, Epic/Amazon giveaways, etc, all of which have “good enough” graphics for me
Yeah I’m always surprised when people are complaining about the cost to buy (not to produce) a game nowadays.
Where I live, games are way cheaper than they used to be during the Playstation 1 Era and it’s now really easy to buy used games online.
Of course if you buy every season pass or special skin for they used to game, it ends up more expensive.
Imho, graphics don’t make the game. There are people here still playing doom and portal. Even games like Terraria aren’t too demanding. You don’t need amazing graphics.
Or any graphics for dwarf fortress and nethack (other rouguelikes also apply)
Yeah, been playing Enter the Gungeon and it’s amazing as well
I thought we had all reached consensus that style is more important than realism. And you can do style without mega hardware.
On the other hand, the fidelity in bg3 I think added something to it. I don’t think it would have been the same experience if they were simple sprites like the original games. Is it worth all the hardware? Maybe.
Fidelity has value but gets diminishing returns the harder it gets.
BG3 wasn’t nearly as far as they’re trying to push though. For example it was beautiful on the normal PS5, as were the Horizon Zero Dawn games. And yet somehow that’s not far enough for them.
There have been massive diminishing returns on graphical quality vs. hardware and developer requirements since the PS3 era.
I will always put an emphasis on art style and gameplay over trend-chasing and what takes the most computing power.
Like, we found acceptable, beautiful levels of graphics years ago.
We’re not the ones saying “make it look even better.” They are the ones that seem to be whipping themselves into some frenzy and saying “we can’t keep doing this!”
So fuckin stop.
I’m fine with graphics from 20 years ago, i just need it to run 4k 120fps with no stutters. GTA SA (the original) is totally fine for me visually with a few mods to allow high res, widescreen and high fps fix.
recent games are graphically too intensive for my gpu even on lowest settings, and i paid fucking 800€ for it a few years ago!
If appearances are so important for their game, they can make it an interactive movie with everything pre-rendered. Works well for crap without actual player influence on the events.
Or - a hint - there are such esteemed genres as classical quest and visual novella, very much alive in the indie world.
Art style fuelled by pure intent and vision trumps photorealism any day of the week.
Heavily biased here, but just look at Warframe. It is undeniably one of the best looking games out there because it has a voice of its own, and it still runs just fine on decade-old hardware. Same with most pixel/voxel graphics games.
We really don’t need to see a billion open pores per square centimeter of facial skin as long as the gameplay’s solid, the story’s good, and the characters are well-written. Add a touch of art style as I’ve mentioned before, and you’re golden.
Plus I’d rather have a functional game than a pretty one any day of the week. The current trend of rushing big budget/high-tech games to market then finishing them over a couple of years is really getting on my nerves - looking at you, Cyberpunk 2077, Darktide, Baldur’s Gate 3 (hate me all you want, but that game was a technical mess at launch), Rogue Trader, S.T.A.L.K.E.R 2, Space Marine 2, (insert ~75% of big budget games released since 2018 here).
I just bought 2077 and No Man’s Sky with some Christmas money. They were $25 each. If they screw up the launch, that just means it’ll be in the bargain bin quicker for us patient gamers.
I haven’t tried Cyberpunk yet, but NMS is very solid for $25. I don’t think I’d ever have paid full price for it though.
Cyberpunk is 4 years old or more, afaik it never got more than 50% discount, too much for me
I’ve been enjoying NMS. Could be a while before I form an opinion on CP2077.
That’s the silver lining, but it still doesn’t excuse the practice in my eyes… It’s like someone selling you a house advertised as fully complete, then spending another year or two finishing up the interiors and the plumbing, while you’re living there… Or a Cybertruck…
Uhm, googling warframe screenshot (to avoid promo material), i’d count Warframe as a more fotorealistic game, aside frome the weird humanoid figures. I mean, look at this:
“AER memories of old” (currently 90% sale) is what i count as own, simple, art style.
Or maybe Satisfactory, that’s good enough in realism, playable on my Cezanne Vega 8 iGPU.
AER was a lovely stop-gap for me after I’d finished Outer Wilds and was a bit bereft. Not remotely the same but I loved the music and flying around.
There’s a vaguely cartoon or fun look to the game but I’m having trouble thinking of good examples. Things have the right proportions but it’s stylized just enough.
The Plains of Eidolon (your screenshot) is the first open world area, and looks more plain compared to Venus and the cambion drift. Most of the game is made of stylized tiles stitched into levels. It’s more obvious as you see all the syandanas and weird frames and the individual factions.
Aah, but they’re tricking you through really good lighting and scene composition;) Everything in this game has its own distinctive twist, like a realistic cartoon. Plus DE are aces at painting a scene!
Granted, their modeling and texture work is damned near witchcraft, I still don’t understand how they manage to cram so much detail into a 3D model…
And thank you for the recs! I’ve already played a bit of Satisfactory and it is very satisfactory (sorry…)! Also bought AER because it looks gorgeous!
Not to mention the extra strain on the environment and a person’s wallet.
True! One of my favourite games is Cultist Simulator, I literally get stuck standing for hours in my kitchen exploring the library and trying not to die on my phone… That game just stinks of vision, love it!
Art style ages much better too
Agreed. I have a concrete example in mind for this: while it’s clear that GSC are still acing the Ukrainian Fallout style, I feel STALKER 2 lost a lot of the series’ personality by switching to Unreal… The grit’s no longer there, and that grit was a defining element of their atmosphere. I still feel a lot more tension in the first three than in this last one, because I’m sucked into their mindset right from the menu.
Edit: I think S.T.A.L.K.E.R 2 is still a good game (technical issues notwithstanding), it’s just… lost some charm along the way.
I’m mad about Space Marine 2. It could have been so good but instead, after losing my progress a bunch of times, I don’t really play it at all. I understand dudes are still losing progress even? And the matchmaking is still broken? What the heck are those devs doing?
I don’t know, either… They have such a solid core with the gameplay and the world building/art style, but seem to be headed in the wrong direction in terms of ongoing development.
And, yeah, the multiplayer UX is questionable, to say the least…
Hell BG3 still feels like a technical mess.
It looks good enough, but runs like shit on the Deck. And I’m not sure why, it’s not like there is a ton of render distance or detail needed.
Heh, I started considering if I should edit in a rant about BG3 in my initial comment and you’ve graciously provided the window I needed, thank you!:))
I don’t know what they did, either, I mean Rogue Trader used to run better while in Beta, and it wasn’t even supposed to run on the Deck as it was… Hell, even my PC starts trying to lift off during most of Act III…
Plus, and I may get nuked for this, the game is incomplete as well. Yes, first and foremost Justice for Karlach and Minthara, the most endearing and the most emotionally complex characters in recent memory respectively (try a Good romance with Minthara and get whiplash going from total domination, blood and carnage to the healthiest concept of a romantic relationship in the entire game, that needed sooo much more exploration!), who both got severely shafted content-wise.
But even beyond that, the bits they cut out near the end can really be felt as rushed amputations rather than anything planned… At least, that’s how they feel to me. Credit where it’s due, Act I and II, and most of Act III are pretty much RPG perfection, but it hurts so much seeing it fumble right as the crescendo boils to an end…
Honestly, Warframe should be what every corpo gaming company is trying to emulate. There’s a so much content, amazing game play, stupidly complex story, the monetization doesn’t harm the playerbase or limit the game, and the devs not only care, but actively play the game themselves.
They’ve got a dozen different genres of game crammed in there now, don’t want first person shooter? You can play space battle, kiju hunter, street fighter, fishing sim, cabalela’s big game hunter, tony hawk pro skater 2, interior design sim, and more without ever opening a different game. I keep trying to play something else and keep going back because it’s both a fun and exciting game, and playing different game modes reward you with things that help your other game modes. Imagine if spending an hour shooting things in CoD and fishing in animal crossing rewarded you with better magic in Skyrim.
Frankly, corpo companies spend millions to have this kind of walled garden system and warframe managed to do it on a budget and to the player’s benefit instead of harm. It’s what gaming needs to strive to be.
DE truly are impressive in how utterly not greedy they are. Not to mention that, as you’ve said, Warframe really seems to be a passion project for them and it shows in every single detail - especially the Warframes themselves, every model is a display-worthy sculpture, I swear!
And, yeah, they are perfectly attuned to the community, actively participate not only within said community, but also mobilise people toward helping other noble causes (see the explosive success they’ve had with fundraising for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation)!
And I totally understand what you mean about the almost paralysing amount of choices on offer in the game itself, I have 2.5k hours in it, playing relatively regularly for 5 years now, and they thoroughly hooked me in with their last batches of updates! Again! I have to consciously make myself play other games every now and again just so that I won’t burn myself out!
I’m really hoping that, with 4 vehicles now and the knave racing in duviri, that we’ll get a conclave racing game mode at some point.
Oh, Conclave definitely needs less killing and more sports! I think Lunaro could be great if they’d rework it a bit. And actual races sound like they could be a blast, yes!
Heck, Tennolympics! Why not! Go all in!:))
I think it’s crazy that we always want prettier games when you still have visual glitches like cars disappearing in your rearview mirror, buildings and textures appearing late, screen tearing when you make your POV spin.
I don’t really need way better graphics, but I’d need these things gone as they take me out of my game way more than no raytracing or a slight fps drop.
I think these things would be easy to solve if we didn’t always get better graphics.
Object permanence in a game still has yet to blow my mind. Dwarf fortress does it pretty well (abandoning a mine to ruin only to revisit the walls you etched aeons ago as an adventurer), and minecraft of course, but any game with decent graphics seem to just abandon this altogether. You’re just visiting that world, you’re not making any change
Well I meant more something like you driving a car fast in an open world and having objects appearing in front of you because everything isn’t loaded yet.
Or landscape disappearing from your rear view mirror in racing games in order to save some memory.
These things wouldn’t cost anything to solve if we gave up some graphical fidelity.
Star Citizen is putting a lot of effort into this, and it looks like they’re getting good results.
Also, interactivity. Both games you mentioned have unparalleled interactivity when compared with the triple A space.
Not saying it’s necessary, but at a certain level of fidelity/realism it starts to look really weird when the world doesn’t meaningfully react to your actions.
Even for games that have the most minimum required, it’s an issue. Modern games can’t populate the maps anymore because of the system requirements to do that while also having “pretty graphics”.
You can hide glitches from videos and screenshots, but you can’t hide the graphics.
Glitches are something people notice after they spend their money, which is why corporations don’t care about them as much.
