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IDF definitely murdered a bunch of civilians with helicopter spray and pray.
I’ve seen mention of this a couple times but don’t really know what people are referring to though I follow bourgeois and proletarian international news media. Do you know a source you could point me to about this?
Second one is in Hebrew, you’ll have to use Google translate
Edit: here’s an archive link to the second article
1400 to 700 civilians.
Now lets invistigate why they are trying to hide how many the IDF killed of those 700.
I have seen two credible accounts so far: a tank killing 14 and another instance of 3 civilians allegedly being held hostage.
But I have seen credible accounts from witnesses indicating a lot of confused firing with no way to fully determine what the results were.
Note, though
Israel counts both soldiers killed in action and off-duty soldiers in its military casualties, and so these figures include, for example, some who died at the Supernova festival or while visiting their family in the south.
It’s a bit difficult to distinguish a burned body in a kibbutz as a civilian vs off duty military until there’s a forensic identification of its identity.
Oh… the US (and the rest of the so-called “west”) peddled hysterically hyperbolized propaganda to justify the genocidal actions of their favorite pet white supremacist settler-colonialist project?
Who coulda thunk it?
The exact number is only really relevant for historical purposes. Especially on this scale. At some point, a catastrophe like this really does become a statistic.
Large attacks like these cannot go unpunished, so the response would’ve been the same no matter the figure. Heck, even if it was a hundred people killed, that’s not something Israel could or should ignore.
And certainly, between the chaos, trauma and condition of some of the bodies, it’s obviously going to take a while to pin down an exact figure anyway.
Exactly, and they’re doing a fantastic job of punishing the children of Gaza, keep up the good work Israel! Soon there won’t be any children left.
Is the way Israel has been treating Palestinians something they should’ve ignored? Or do you reckon that’s why the attack occurred in the first place?
But let me guess, Hamas are terrorists and the IDF are well equipped soldiers so really Israel was just forced into this by evil people.
And before you reply with “I don’t condone yadda yadda ya…”, know that that’s exactly what you’re doing, that’s exactly what the media is doing, by always forgetting about where this started, and always pointing to the reaction of the people that are being deprived of everything and slowly eradicated.
What you’re insinuating here, if not bluntly stating it, is that Israel’s hand was forced, validating their reaction, and in the same breath saying that before this attack, all was well.
You can no longer claim that “this is not the way to go about it” after flat out condoning and supporting Israel’s reaction as it exposes your bias.
Wow, a sane take!? I’m surprised that this popped up between all the anti-israel propaganda here on Lemmy.
Murder and torture of unarmed elders, women and babit is purely heinous, no matter the scale.
You guys don’t understand they were all decapitated babies and we totally have proof. It is just too bad to show you.
The final death toll from the attack is now thought to be 695 Israeli civilians, including 36 children, as well as 373 security forces and 71 foreigners, giving a total of 1,139.
So? Does it matter if it was 1400, 1300 or 1139? It’s mass murder anyway, and Hamas are still bastards for killing them. And Netanyahu is still a bastard for using it as a free pass on bombing Gaza. These numbers don’t change anything at all.
Can one imagine a rave party with a thousand+ of people, and then imagine them all dead? Or a european-like district with housing, schools, shops for 13k people - you can see them on Google Maps, they were pretty sweet in spite of israeli politics - all leveled down to the ground. It’s a rave party not unlike one happening near you, this neighborhood is not unlike yours. These people may not speak english, yet they share basic things with you, like, they could’ve liked the same songs, the same movies like you do, some of them could’ve even been trekkies. And now they are lost. They won’t have a child, they won’t share a funny story over drinks with friends, they won’t build that birdhouse their elderly parents asked for. They are dead, non-existent, and all work put into making them proper adults is lost. And whatever it’s a thousand, or a thousand of thosands, it’s too much to ignore. Every person shot or slayed there is too much to ignore. There should be a ceasefire agreement first, it needs to stop.
I know right, imagine if it had been over 15,000 innocent people that had had their homes destroyed and their family and friends killed over something they had nothing to do with.
and then imagine them all dead?
Did that happen?
Also while atrocities were committed on October 7th, AFAIK there was no mass murder. And if you’re wondering how so many people died then, there’s an unknown but significant number of IDF-inflicted casualties in those 1139.
there was no mass murder
Go fuck yourself with a fork if 1139, or even 500 isn’t a mass murder in your dictionary, I don’t feel like I want to talk to you. You don’t help palestinians by downplaying what hamas bastards did to jews while enjoying golf courses in Quatar.
Fuck yourself first asshole they used this excuse to declare a genocide and it comes out Israeli leadership fucking funded Hamas and allowed this shit to happen.
Hamas sucks but everything they did has Israeli hands helping and now Israeli hands are committing genocide.
How fuckin stupid are you?
You’d go to excuse Hamas, won’t you?
Hamas sucks but …
Get. Lost. Already.
Yes i absolutely will excuse Hamas. They’re a rabid angry abused dog taunted and then their owner secretly unlocked the fence and cried “what a bad dog look what it did to me!”
Israel is the start and end of this Hamas is a pawn. Fuck off idiot.
You are honest about that. I’d give you that. It feels refreshing to find an opponent who stays by their ideals. Thinking you are terminally wrong, I respect you still being there.
Excuse Hamas for what?
Launching an attack on a white supremacist settler-colonialist state that has been waging war on Palestinians since 1949?
I think it is you that needs to get lost.
Killing a thousand of people is ok, right?
You know you can hate both Hamas and Israeli monsters?
Killing a thousand of people is ok, right?
Not keeping up with current events, are you?
Or are you just so desperate to cling to your pro-Israeli narrative that you will simply ignore them?
I literally responded to that in the very next sentence. Until the IDF counts the people their own fire killed, and the ones who died in the crossfire, both of which exist in significant numbers, we have no evidence Hamas did anything close to mass murder. Also that 1139 is counting the 373 security force people, which are legitimate military targets.
So ~800 civilians dead still, right?
You… just ignored everything I said except the numbers right?
No?
You mean these 800-something people died in a cross-fire? I feel like I don’t uderstand you.
The crossfire, reckless (sometimes deliberate when they were taken hostage) IDF fire and Hamas war crimes. These three categories all contain significant numbers of people, so until we know who killed how many and where there are no grounds to claim Hamas committed mass murder.
They claimed 1,300 were killed, and that number turns out to be wrong…
…meanwhile they’ve killed over 13,000 Palestinians. It’s not an eye for an eye, it’s genocidal murder.
Don’t include Hamas terrorists with Palestinian civil casualties.
They are two separate things, which are counted separately.
Don’t include Hamas terrorists with Palestinian civil casualties.
Do tell… does the IDF follow Vietnam rules? Ie, does a Palestinian child only count as “half-a-terrorist” to the genocidal white supremacist settler-colonialist state?
You still didn’t provide the correct numbers.
All I can say is that both sides are wrong. Israel is an apartheid state. I was born Jewish but I do not have to side with Israel. I am far from an antisemite. Evil is evil.
Hamas definitely isn’t in the wrong anymore. No rape, no decapitation, extremely targeted attacks against military.
These new numbers make Hamas look like angels.
Your comment is as wrong as two left shoes. Ain’t nothing right about it.
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