Why are y’all in the comments trying to act like one or another universalist position has to fit like a sock to all situations? There are debates where one side is blatantly wrong and the other is blatantly correct, debates where one side is wrong and the other has some points right, debates where both sides have some points right, debates where both sides would do well to return to school and debates where no side can be objetively correct because they’re discussing something intrinsically subjective. The “enlightened centrist” meme is useful to mock the stupid position that “the truth is always in the middle”, but if you think you’re always going to find someone in any debate who has the right answer, you’re going to find yourself siding with stupid shit all the time.
Yes! Can we pin this somewhere for new Lemmy users to read? I’m so over the right/wrong ONLY attitudes
Differing opinions is not the same thing as misinformation.
Yup my current favorite combo is hexbear and the neolibs at /r/Destiny. Completely ideologically opposed on nearly all issues. I usually side more with the hexbear crowd but they also have their own bubble thing going on
Both sides can be misinformed but, it doesn’t mean you need to react negatively to someone else’s viewpoint. If you disagree there’s nothing wrong with saying “I disagree because I think that…” or “I’ve read that…” and you don’t have to call the other person a nasty derogatory name.
99% of us just think whatever our friends think. Is that an argument for or against what we’re thinking?
Well I think you’re right, but I hope people have more brains to than to simply go along with what their friends think. I’m very anti-religious, but have close friends who are deeply religious. We just stay off the topic. I think people choose to hang with others who think the way they do most of the time. That doesn’t prove anybody right, it just proves we like to congregate with those whose opinions are the same as ours.
I think it might speak against the idea. Because there is a strong probability that it is chosen, not because evidence/logic/etc leads to it, but because it is popular with one’s friends. Not saying it’s necessarily so, but there’s a strong probability.
(Which would lead to “truth can only be gotten from antisocial weirdos”. Which is kinda bleak I guess.)
But yes. I think that the 99% of people get their whole reality from consensus. No actual independent thinking except in the details. And there is also a vast hostility to the strange there. Maybe that’s “tribalism”.
Another term for what you are describing which is philosophically untenable is relativism or if you are too far gone possible solipsism.
I described like 5 things. Can you be more specific?
That’s true where I live in mormon country, USA. People are told what to think by the church, and they also are instructed who to vote for by the church. The Mormons often say, " my church does my thinking for me." I guess it relieves people of the responsibility of having to make choices for themselves. That to me is much bleaker than truth being obtained from weirdos.
Which I think it correct. It takes a “weirdo” to be either crazy or brave enough to say anything that goes against the popular viewpoint. Most people can handle almost anything better than they can handle being unpopular or called weird.
It’s funny. People I know who are religious. They may have a head full of scripture but dogmatism isn’t as ubiquitous as you might think. And often behind that scriptural thinking is a proper humility. An understanding that these eyes and this brain are just a speck. A dot of illumination in a vast night. Fine modern scientific and/or theological theories notwithstanding.
The popular arrogance, otoh, is childish. Smug certainty that you have truth in hand. I find that hard to swallow.
Drugs and meditation are the best cure for it as far as I can tell.
I like meditation a lot.
If you’ve previously identified one side as consisting of pathological liars, it’s best to ignore whatever they say because the more you hear from them, the more likely you are to accidently believe one of their lies. It takes a lot of vigilance to listen to a bunch of plausibly-true statements without misremembering some of them as being true.
You‘re new here, right? Keep that positive attitude as long as you can.
Actually I wrote that because I am not new to this stuff at all. Just kind of fed up with always getting called names just because sometimes I post things that arent the most popular view or are different ways of looking at things. I’m OK with people saying “I don’t agree” if they can explain why without also adding “you idiot” or “you fucking idiot” onto the end. I try to be civil, but am always surprised how people respond with uncalled for name calling.
You’re right. There is zero benefit to being an asshole, especially for the person being an asshole. Ego makes it tempting though.
bOtH siDeS
Learn about one religion and you may become faithful. Learn about many and you may become an atheist.
There’s some truth and some idiocy behind this meme. Just because, for example, the US political system tends toward a two party system, does not mean you can always or always not find some amount of truth or good ideas based on what two parties tell you. In fact, the framing is irrelevant toward truth, and is even it’s own type of bias. There are certainly some third rails neither side of a debate will touch, or some things both find the need to lie about. But in some cases someone is sort of right about something and sometimes people are just wrong.
Not me. I learned about all of them and have accepted them all. It’s exhausting.
When Orion aligns with cup noodle. Ramen, my brother. May Prince Phillip have mercy on your Chūnjié and bless your virgins in Ragnarok.
Or a syncretist.
