(Basically a response I made on a community, feel like it belongs here too)
I think toxic podcasts have a big influence on young men, especially those who grew up without strong father figures. My own dad wasn’t perfect (I joke a bit about it on my profile), and many of us went through that risky “2015 phase” of consuming unhealthy online content.
What many politicians and advocates on the left often overlook is that toxic masculinity isn’t solved by telling men to be “less masculine.” You can actually counter unhealthy masculinity with healthy masculinity. Instead of shaming men, we should be teaching a better version of manhood one that includes therapy, emotional intelligence, and being able to talk honestly about what’s going on inside.
As corny as it sounds there’s a reason when there’s a bad take by a misinformed feminist calling all men evil on twitter ganders a response like “This is why men turn right” and sure while that stuff doesn’t work on me anymore, It’s not 2015-2016 there’s still some vulnerable people that unfortunately fall for it, does that mean though that the feminist is wrong in her views? Not really, but I’m not talking about myself I’m talking about a lot of men that do fall for it.
Most working-class men who grind through 9–5 jobs, going from shift to shift, are worried about affordability and stability. If someone comes along and says “I’m going to make your life easier,” that’s who they’ll vote for even if it’s Trump. You can call them naïve or say the leopards ate their face or whatever , but the reality is that many of these men are desperate for change. And they’ll keep voting for whoever promises that change. When society pushes these men aside or dismisses them, some end up looking for someone to blame. That’s when you get people saying, “Women are the reason my life is hard,” or “Jews control everything.”
Of course, some people are genuinely racist or sexist, and there will always be trolls who just want attention. But why do those trolls exist in the first place? Often it’s because they feel insignificant, and attaching themselves to extreme movements gives them a sense of identity and purpose they don’t have otherwise.
If someone comes along and says “I’m going to make your life easier,” that’s who they’ll vote for even if it’s Trump. You can call them naïve or say the leopards ate their face or whatever , but the reality is that many of these men are desperate for change. And they’ll keep voting for whoever promises that change. When society pushes these men aside or dismisses them, some end up looking for someone to blame.
I was with you until this part. If you’re too stupid to do a bare minimum of investigation about the person you’re voting for to learn that they’re a lying, orange, racist, bigoted, pedophile, sack of shit you deserve to be pushed aside. You deserve a hell of a lot worse.
Dumb question: what does healthy masculinity consist of or look like? And how does it differ from generic be a good person?
It’s Aragorn. 100% unironically Aragorn son of Arathorn is the model of healthy masculinity.
Why would it have to differ from “generic be a good person”? It’s just, be a good person who is also secure in their masculinity. Normalize that, and I think we’re going to be ok.
When you say “secure in their masculinity” what does the masculinity part consist of?
Masculinity is an expression of male empowerment. What “feminism” is for women, “masculinity” is for men. And like any other gender identity, its expression is unique and deeply personal.
For a man, being “secure in your masculinity”, basically just means being comfortable and confident with who they are. Without being secure in that sense of self, it’s very easy to fall into more toxic ways of expressing themselves. They will overcompensate for their lack of confidence and lash out in an effort to gain control, without realizing they’re trying to control things they have no real power over. And when it inevitably doesn’t work, they will become frustrated and lash out even more.
This is why all these “manosphere” assholes are such terrible role models for young boys to have. The way they “teach boys to be men”, is focused on gaining external control over people and/or situations…which is the most toxic way of expressing their masculinity. They should be focused on self-control and inner strength, rather than trying to control or dominate everything around them.
I’ve heard a bunch of podcasts about this. In the end I’ve concluded there is no answer to this question. There are no role models. There are no examples of good masculinity (Bluey’s dad Bandit is the only example that ever seems to be mentioned). The current discussion about problematic masculinity starts with the negative state of things and subtracts the bad things that shouldn’t be there. But you can’t make something good by starting with shit and only subtracting.
It’s correct that being a man should be synonymous with being a good human. But then again so should being a good woman. I’m still confused about why there needs to be a distinction between good masculinity and good femininity. All features of good femininity are things I would argue need to be in men as well. The more time that passes the more I struggle to see why gender gets pulled into everything.
You could argue that acting as a protector, builder, provider is more male/masculine based on sexual dimorphism.
Protecting in a healthy way might be, for example, going out trick-or-treating with the kids. Other examples might be building a doghouse or inviting an out-of-town friend to stay at your home.
Of course, for an individual the ‘healthy’ in healthy masculinity/feminity is most important. The second part is entirely optional and very subjective.
Who tells men to be less masculine?
This is a narrative from the manosphere. That leftists & liberals want you to give up masculinity and be gay, transgender, blah, blah, blah. This narrative is relatively unopposed by folks on the left which I think is what OP is sort of getting at. We need loud voices promoting positive forms of masculinity otherwise it’s the toxic manosphere vs silence.
deleted by creator
This all rests on the idea that a masculine gender is basically mandatory (and I would guess, linked to being male).
Masculinity is a problem, it’s saying that if you are a “man” (once again, generally defined by sex) then you have to follow a set of rules. Currently, these are toxic, thus toxic masculinity. But if they were healthy, then why would they have to be gendered? If, let’s say, you think talking about your feelings openly is a part of healthy masculinity, does it mean it’s only allowed for men? If not, why is it part of masculinity?
