Despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, Infosys co-founder Narayana Murthy has once again called for longer working weeks has returned, this time with an emphasis on schedules like the 996-pattern used in parts of China.
Murthy’s comments revive a debate which began in 2024, when he argued that Indian employees should work 70 hours a week.
The sooner we start eating these motherfuckers the faster things will improve.
Billionaire is a mental illness that isn’t compatible with civil society,
Crunching does not work!
Instead, it reduces productivity to a fraction (often 10% of normal), countering any time added.
You want to improve your productivity, you make your workers happy. Make sure they can eat, have good healthcare, have adequate family life, etc.
We now have studies that counter the crunching myths and time theft myths.
The cruelty is the point
They’re not invincible. We’re not our ancestors. Look at this little dweeb. Is anyone really intimidated by him?
So go get him, tiger.
I’m not in India. These dweebs almost always have personal security nonetheless.
Is maxxing the productivity top priority?
They might value control over their workforce above productivity.
In actuality, yes, their job is to maximize productivity for the dollar spent, hence maximizing profits, and the best way to do that for most job pools is by improving the QoL of the workforce.
They likely do value control over productivity, but that’s not the job of upper management. A lot of jobs (the bullshit jobs ) are to fulfill a personal need for an entourage, the illusion of business activity. That is a – human – trait.
Our c-suite execs might believe it controlling the workforce is their job, though, if they’re inadequately educated about the current state of the art. Hopefully, their AI replacements will be more current and won’t be interfered with by the BoD or shareholders.
Imagine if every muscle cell in my biceps wanted to self-actualize. I want to grab a cup of coffee, but every muscle cell in my arms has their own ideas. Something that normally takes a second, now takes 10 years of negotiations. It would not do me a lick of good if I had the strongest muscle cells in existence if I could not control them.
Of course people should not be regarded as mere muscle cells, but the point here is to show how obviously valuable and vital control can be when you want to serve some ambition.
Should workers be controlled like they are soldiers?
Whose interests does the business prioritize? And how heavily?
In a worker cooperative workers are the owners. Workers hire and fire their managers at every level of management. All power flows are bottom up. The workers are the entourage. In this case workers are better positioned to self-actualize, because there is no capricious, lazy, ignorant, spoiled silky pants tyrant at the top.
But what about a more typical business? Well, there is either one owner or a tiny cabal of owners, and everyone else is just a resource, a means to an end. And you have to exert control over the means of labor to benefit the entourage at the top. If the entourage can figure out how to produce things without workers, they will get rid of them immedeately, why? Because the workers are just a means, they are incidental, they exist because slavery was deemed too toxic, and because no one figured out a way to get rid of the workers yet. That’s the only reason workers exist in capitalism.
Managers want to give orders and see those orders followed immediately. They don’t want debates, challenges, counter proposals, etc. If workers want to self-actualize, that’s a huge problem for a top down power flow. That’s why it is essential to beat the desire to self-actualize out of workers early. That way mindless servility is assured, which is good for control.
Also, if your workers work 80 hour weeks, they won’t start competing ventures in their spare time. Again, control.
I kinda feel sorry for all the workers out there, because self-actualization is a heavenly mandate for every sentient being, and yet they are plugged into and slotted into a structure where worker (out group) self-actualization is a huge obstacle for the (in group) entourage.
Getting everyone happy can be a slow and messy process. What if you make weapons and your workers decide it is unethical to make weapons? You are a manager of youtube and you order workers to censor channels for entourage’s benefit, but they have their own ideas, and they pretend to be censoring while actually not censoring? There is no end to such possibilities. Hence why the soul of many people MUST be crushed if the top down power flow is to be served in full measure.
Every so often there is an oddball manager like Ricardo Semler. But Ricardo Semler is the exception.
They actually think it’s more productive. They’re so good at gaslighting, they even do it to themselves.
If the workforce makes a pittance and is too exhausted to rebel, the bosses win.
The bosses win if winning is continuing to manage the company poorly.
The shareholders lose since cruel treatment reduces productivity and weakens profit margins. It depends on how seriously the business controllers want to actually do a capitalism and create a product and turn a profit.
If you pay low enough wages and workers are too exhausted to do anything about it, lower productivity is profitable. It’s about the bottom line.
“You worked really hard this year. 60 hour weeks. Impressive but you can do more. See that rolls Royce in the parking lot? If you work 80 hour weeks next year and everything works out, I’ll be able to buy a second one.”
I don’t understand why these assholes insist on people working more hours. What’s the difference to them between 1 person working 70 hours a week or 2 people working a combined total of 70 hours if they’re both paid the same hourly rate?
if they’re both paid the same hourly rate?
That’s the fun part: you only have to pay them for 40 hours!
You just aren’t thinking like a billionaire, man. What you do is get the two people anyway, and still force the 70 hour work week.
Your job is not to find a reasonable steady state of operation. Your job is to exploit the resources before you (even the ones with emotions and families) to extract value for the shareholders in the most efficient way possible, before somebody even more evil and clever than you figures out a better way and we direct future fresh meat to his meat grinder instead of yours.
Not only is it your job, you’re legally required to, and your shareholders can sue you if you don’t as per Ford v Dodge
He gets less profit this way
Benefits can be expensive, and they only pay you for the 40 hours because it’s a salaried rather than hourly position. They just want free labor at the expense of the employees’ sanity.
Insurance, benefits and labor expenses. Even in places with little worker protections there are costs that scale with the number of workers instead of the number of hours.
A brief look indicates employers in India can expect to budget on the order of 18% of an employees take home per year for those expenses.There are some circumstances and places in the US where you don’t need to provide as many benefits to employees who work below 40 hours. Then you see employers hire more people and schedule them for just under the threshold to give them benefits.
The answer is always because it’s cheaper for them somehow.
Overworked peasants have neither the time nor the energy to revolt.
Saint Luigi preserve us.
“Infosys co-founder suggested slavery could be brought back with updated terms and conditions”
This is how this news should be titled
If you follow the standard 5 day business week, that is 70 hours worked for every 50 hours not worked. Account for 8 hours of sleep a night and you have 2 hours a day to commute to your job. Literally zero time for any other needs. And that’s ONLY if you are generous enough to give everyone the weekend to recharge.
For a 7 day work week with no days off, allowing for 8 hours of sleep per day and 2 hours of commute time, that is 4 hours a day to do anything else. I also would assume that part of the day would still be considered off hours for lunch. As well. Call it 3 hours a day for anything not work related.
This man should be hanged for even suggesting this as a reasonable productivity schedule for any living being.
No joke, I really do think in a just society he would be hanged.
Yeah - there is no way that you are able to raise children or even go to the dentist checkup with such a work schedule. And if such a schedule was implemented, that would be the collapse of everything else. Cinemas, theatres, bars, events, sport clubs and so on.
CEO: has lunch and answers a phone call. “I’m working!” Writes a proposal from a yacht “I’m working!” Goes golfing with industry buddies. “I’m working!” Paid tens of millions not including stock options. Spends time in the c-suite. Actually is working. Writes a letter about his cubicle slaves who are chained to their cubicle at work, their phone at home, unable to actually use PTO due to fear of negative performance reviews, working 50+ hours on the clock and uncounted hours off the clock “You need to work more!!” With their pay and benefits constantly under assault by managers.
Like hell the CEO is writing a proposal himself on a yacht. That’s what his secretary, Sugartits or Kathy or whatever, is for.
He read the proposal. That’s his work for the day. Claimed 18 hrs.
I’ve never seen it written so concisely before. The truth hits that much harder because of it 🫠🥲
can someone kidnap this motherfucker and make him work normal labor job for 80 hours a week, for a year, and see how much he likes this stupid fucking pants on head idea after that
The pampered idiots that suggest these things would literally not survive a year of actual work at 40 hours let alone what they propose
still solves the problem.
That’s the thing, looking at the company they don’t work “normal labor” jobs. Infosys is into info tech, consulting, and outsourcing services and looking at their acquisition history I get the impression they buy up smaller companies and consolidate their work into their product. Basically they make websites and tools that your company buys for $100k to analyze and optimize workflow, but the site doesn’t work well and they never fix it. After 2 years enough time has passed that the higher ups don’t feel embarrassed retiring the software and buying something else. Also, rather than just coding themselves they code with AI or buy other companies that already wrote the code and put it into their own product.
At the end of the day they aren’t “working,” they are being available. They are the shitty guy who is answering a work call on a Saturday while they are supposed to be watching their kid’s ball game. They are the person who has to step out of the movie theater because they are getting an urgent work call at 10 pm on Friday. They are the person who flies back from their vacation two days early because the boss wants to ask about sales numbers. This is how Executive suite types say they work 16 hour days 7 days a week, they count every hour of the day as work because they are available, not because they were being productive that entire time.
Iceland made theor 4 day workweek experiment permanent…because it was actually more productive.
They don’t even want all the money, they just want us to suffer
These people may as well tattoo “slave owner” on their foreheads by now.
Japan has a habit of doing this. The birth rate cratered, productivity is not that great and economic growth is famously low. Most workers do a form of performance theater, an actual “we pretend to work”.
So stupid. Wasting potential personal time for such theatrics.
They should take inspiration from my coworkers, who don’t even bother to pretend.A form of wage theft that’s common in the US (and elsewhere) is that workers are expected to still do work when they have already clocked out (such as closing up the shop).
I have a Japanese friend who told me that it’s not uncommon that if your work colleagues are going to the bar after work, you are expected to go along. If you don’t, it shows a lack of commitment to your job. As it’s not a formal requirement, of course you don’t get paid for this, despite it being functionally mandatory. What’s worse is that you can’t just stick around for one drink and then head home — you are expected to stick around at least as long as your boss, even if he (let’s face it, the boss is probably male) is still drinking long into the night. I consider this to be an especially egregious form of the wage theft I described above.
It sounds so exhausting that I would likely be unable to do anything besides pretend to work, and even that would lead to inevitable burn out. I had heard that the work culture in Japan was bad, but I had no idea how bad until my friend shared some first hand experiences with me.
Fuck that! We should be aiming for 21-28 hours being the normal length of the employed week for everyone everywhere, and it not being necessary to work any more than that unless you want to for yourself. We can’t accelerate forever, we need to do less work hours and have good quality of life, otherwise what’s even the point of technology?
Technology is now used as a tool to perpetually force the working class to obey the ever increasing draconian rules. AI is one thing, highlighting that all it matters to them is a profit with no gratitude towards the workers.
This is essentially legal slavery, fuelled by big corp and the governmental bootlickers.
Arguably we are already there. Depends how much you want to yourself. My house? No comrade, our house.
Share a house and you can do very little work. You could take it pretty far too. Think of those capsule hotels, could fit loads of capsules in my current bedroom even if you want to have your own capsule - sharing can further increase population. Less than 20 hours of work a month for static fees (mortgage, tax) per person. Food is about 4 hours of work a month. Heating wont change, though you will use more hot water for washing, probably 2-5 hours of work for energy and water.
All essentials covered, less than 30 hours of work a month required per person. Basing this on my expenses in the UK and minimum wage.
@oftenawake @throws_lemy starting with 4 working days per week would be an massive improvement already
Put his ass out there in the field for 70 hrs and see if he keeps preaching it
It’s for thee not for me. He knows he will never have too.
These people really think they’re invincible. It makes me laugh. There’s nothing special about them. I love how they think money makes them bulletproof or from an angry mob having their way with them.
Shit like this should be shown to people who argue against unionization.
Remember, the parasites will take everything they can, even if it means their eventual demise.
The ultimate goal of capitalism is to have an infinite pool of workers, working infinite hours, for $0.
Don’t forget each worker also has to simultaniously spend $∞ on goods and services.
And who will buy the results of their labour?
The priviledged class will trade among themselves.
You can have a society with 7.5 billion people that are fed, clothed, sheltered enough to stave off early death, and 500 mil people with property rights trading among themselves.
Nothing says economies must collapse if not everyone is enfranchised. There is no such law.
I could see a black mirror 15 million merits type of society. Pointless work for pointless pay. But gotta keep the poors in a position that they get something they want from their meaningless work even if it’s got no real value but they want the shiny.
But then what happens to the individuals that reject consumerism? It clearly shown the main character racked up a shitload of cash by doing that. Couldn’t you then do very little work?
You can’t get cash rewards for consuming less. Spending is the least important variable in the accumulation game. All else being equal, spending less means you can spend more at other times. So if I penny pinch all year, I can splurge on New Year’s eve, that sort of thing. That doesn’t make you rich. That doesn’t elevate your status in societies where all the needed and useful resources are paywalled.
Income and time is what matters. And if you can get income while keeping all your time to yourself, that’s what elevates status. In other words you don’t trade your own time for income. That means there must be some slaves or extremely poor people that are constantly exploited to enable the elite living conditions.
A society doesn’t need parasitic elites. But if you want a better society you will have to pry it from the elites’ cold hands, because they won’t go along with a scheme that makes the world a happy and healthy place at their expense.
If I have 400 billion, but in a happy and healthy world I can only have 100mil max, which is 3 orders of magnitude less, I would rather burn down the whole planet than lose 1 cent. My interests are everything to me. My personal condition is what I experience first hand, while the rest of the world is just a theory, a story on a newspaper page, an image on TV, etc. I won’t accept tangible personally felt losses for gains which to me are theoretical.
Of course if I inhabit a worker instead of a billionaire, things are different, the calculus is different, but crumbs are always crumbs. Whether I am a worker or billionaire, man or woman, I refuse to crumb myself. I want a 10 course dinner, with hookers and blow to boot, with every trimming. Always. I’d rather have food I can’t eat than not have enough. No matter who I inhabit, the previous statement is true.
If what you want is in a tree, you have to shake that fucking tree. If you want fish you have to catch it.
Some assholes wanted to exploit people, so they killed, threatened, organized and propagandized and accomplished it. We need to understand this and take notes. Know yourself and know your enemy and you will always win.
If we want something else, if we want a different system, there will always be people that are super happy with how things are now. These folks have done very well under the present system. These folks will block our way. They are the tree, the fish, they are the soil that we have to plow and sometimes pave, to get to where we need to go. It will be ugly. It will not be without struggle.
If we just remain passive, and modestly undemanding, and we just politely wave our slogans on street corners, we know exactly what happens next.
I wasn’t talking about getting rich, my point was working less. If work doesn’t pay, there is no reason to work.
Slaves got no pay. They still worked.
