We can go two ways. Either we squander the lead, or we grow it.
Fortunately, very little in this strategy depends on American investment or American technology. For instance
“Shell’s Scotford Upgrader captured 77% of its carbon emissions in 2022 …”
“ArcelorMittal Dofasco in Ontario plans to end the use of coal in its plants,…”
“inclusion of hydrogen in the Canada-EU High-Level Energy Dialogue, active since 2007, where Canada and the EU collaborate on mutual goals …”
“the Canada-Japan Energy Policy Dialogue, active since 2019, which signed an updated Action Plan for 2023 to 2025 …”
“the May 2023 Memorandum of Understanding with South Korea on cooperation in critical mineral supply chains, the clean energy tran…”
"the August 2022 Joint Declaration of Intent to establish a Canada-Germany Hydrogen Alliance, which seeks to create …
“the 2021 Memorandum of Understanding between Canada and the Netherlands on cooperation in the field of hydrogen energy, w…”
“In the East, Atlantic Canada’s abundant and untapped wind resources and immediate proximity to Atlantic shipping routes will allow wind-to-hydrogen electrolysis projects to become reliable suppliers of clean hydrogen to Germany and other European markets. Germany has announced its intention to import up to 50-70 percent of its hydroge…”
Are all points that reflect a Canadian strategy to globalize our hydrogen policies.
Incidentally, recent developments and explorations on naturally-occurring free (unbound to other elements) hydrogen deposits, once thought impossible, now indicate that Canada’s unique geology of natural rock formations could make it one of the world’s largest sources of naturally-occurring free hydrogen. Enough to power the world for hundreds of years.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/bakx-white-hydrogen-natural-mali-1.7094645
And Newfoundland-Labrador, with its abundance of renewable electrical generation, could make it a world center for hydrogen from electrolysis (it is now one of the leading world centers for current projects).
Let’s not drop the ball on this one, or let the Americans take it away from us like they did the Avro.
I’m still highly skeptical that green hydrogen can be a viable export. Will it really be cheaper to do electrolysis in Canada and ship it abroad in leaky containers rather than building a solar farm or some other renewable energy source and producing hydrogen domestically? Will there even be the global demand for hydrogen to justify such a build out? I guess time will tell but I’m pretty cynical about it
You are right that intercontinental shipping of h2 is the last frontier for h2 economy. Local production from solar, and short distribution routes is first step.
Hydrogen is not just a fuel, it is important in many chemical and manufacturing processes.
Methinks your cynicism comes from a lack of knowledge.
Or a deliberate attempt to discourage Canada from developing our hydrogen infrastructure long enough for the US to attempt to sweep it out from under us.
But that is my cynicism.
I’m aware that hydrogen is useful for lots of industrial processes, but the line that is being sold for building up hydrogen capacity at a large scale is that there will be high demand for it to be used as a fuel. Besides, the same issues persist whether it’s being used industrially or as a fuel, does Canada even have the domestic demand to justify a huge scale up of hydrogen production?
You are correct that I am not very knowledgeable about the hydrogen industry, which is in part why I am skeptical. My experience is limited to geology and I know that a lot of domestic hydrogen production occurs at oil and gas drilling sites, so I have been suspicious of the push for hydrogen being another greenwashing gambit by O&G companies to get more money from government to drill for more oil and gas.
I am not trying to discourage development of an industry but I don’t think I’m asking unreasonable questions. If government is going to be investing a shit ton of money into this, we should be sure that it’s a good investment.
You obviously did not read that part about Germany, Korea, Japan taking al the hydrogen we can produce.
We pump far more oil and natural gas out of the ground than Canada will EVER use in domestic consumption. Whatever do we do with all the excess?
Okay so let me be clear as to what my concerns are.
Hydrogen production, whether to be used as a fuel source or as a chemical reagent, is not problematic in isolation. However, even in this document you’ve linked hydrogen is being pitched largely as a green fuel source to in part replace fossil fuels in thr future. Much of the current hydrogen capacity and advance developments for hydrogen production come as a byproduct of oil and gas wells. That type of hydrogen is only considered “low carbon” because of current and potentiao future capabilities of carbon sequestration by oil and gas companies. The issues i have with carbon sequestration are a whole other story but let’s just say I am also doubtful of its feasibility.
If other countries are buying our hydrogen, it’s because it’s cheaper than what they could potentially produce locally. If we stopped production of geological hydrogen for the purposes of reducing emissions, would it still be cheaper for other nations to import our hydrogen vs developing their own domestic production facilities? If we don’t ramp down fossil fuel production, then hydrogen isn’t really solving any problems and I would rather we invest money into actually decarbonizing the economy.
It just seems like to me hydrogen can either be a way to decarbonize the economy OR a way to boost economic development in canada, but I am skeptical that it can do both effectively.
They are buying from the Maritime provinces, Newfoundland in particular, and it is all from wind, solar, and water power. Particularly electrolysis of water. None of the hydrogen is coming from fossil fuels. Read my links, stop flapping off to me unless you read the links. I did not ever say anything about it coming from fossil fuels, and neither did the links.
Canada has an overabundance of very cheap non-fossil-fuel sources of energy, so we can economically convert this abundant energy to hydrogen (ammonia) and export it. Better to export our excess electricity to Europe (via ammonia) than let the ungrateful Americans have it.
No matter how clear you try to be, it will always come out murky. You are o the wrong side of the arguement.
“The credit will apply to both electrolysis projects and natural gas reforming projects if emissions are abated with carbon capture utilization and storage (CCUS)” referring to a tax credit for hydrogen development
Another one:
“Offers a 37.5% to 60% credit on the equipment necessary to capture, transport and store carbon emissions, benefitting facilities producing hydrogen from natural gas”
Also:
" The following uses of hydrogen can create CFR credits:
- Hydrogen used as a fuel or feedstock in the production of liquid fossil fuels
- Hydrogen used as a fuel or feedstock at a low-carbon-intensity fuel production facility
- Hydrogen used as a fuel in stationary applications (for example, hydrogen injected in natural gas pipelines)"
Over half of the hydrogen production facilities are from oil and gas:
“There are 13 low-carbon hydrogen production facilities in operation in Canada, comprising 6 electrolytic facilities and 7 projects that have adopted carbon capture to lower the emissions of traditionally carbon intensive hydrogen production”
Don’t act like the concerns I raise are bullshit. I am trying to have a discussion about something you are clearly passionate about and you respond like an asshole. If you want to educate people on things then be prepared to actually discuss the topic rather than attack people becaise they dont want to spend time reading through a technical report to quote a specific reference.
A lot of hype around hydrogen results in government money that subsidizes fossil fuel companies, that’s hardly a green initiative in my mind. Hydrogen production by electrolysis is absolutely a good thing, especially for applications like steel production. I truly hope that stuff works out as an international export. Storage and transport as ammonia seems promising, but comes at a substantial energy expense in the conversion process. Will that plus shipping costs still work out to be cheaper than producing domestically for other nations? Is investing in this technology really the best utilization of our excess energy or are we better off developing more energy intensive industries here? Or maybe even reducing electricity costs for domestic consumers?
You are not trying to have a discussion, you are trying to proselytize. The export of hydrogen as ammonia produced by non-fossil-fuel energy input is quite clearly dominant in the future hydrogen energy strategy. You can pull up all the small tidbits you want to support your proselytizing, but be clear that is all they are, small tidbits, in the overall strategy.
Hydrogen might be interesting, and it may work in some instances/industries but it is very unlikely to work in others.
Long distance freight by railway? Hell yeah I see hydrogen trains happening. Planes? Very unlikely but possibly. Boats? Seems plausible to me. Static energy storage/facility level distribution? It will work but will leak its own gases anyway when perfectly airtight options are there. Hydrogen automobiles? Not worth it, Toyota has already tried that hand for way longer than anyone else and is hardly getting anywhere.
Electric cars, hydrogen cars and gasoline cars are neat but they aren’t there to solve the climate crisis but to solve the personal automotive industry crisis. It’s really commercial transport and other uses that really could use these.
Hah, you’re right.Let’s just keep destgroying our climate and environment by doing things the way we always have.
Let other nations develop the technology and become strong, while we just become weaker and weaker.
Hey, maybe that is really what you want?
We could rezone housing and build mass transit, make our cities actually workable in a low carbon world. Instead of borrowing money to pay extortionate developer fees in order to keep property taxes low on single family homes.
Yes, we can and are doing all that. We can also tap our energy resources and ship energy (via ammonia/hydrogen) to Europe, Japan, and Korea to help pay for all of those things.
Hydrogen might be interesting, and it may work in some instances/industries but it is very unlikely to work in others.
Makes absolutely no sense. It is like saying 'Milk will work in some recopies [that call for it] but it is unlikely to work in others [that do not use milk]." So let’s stop all milk production.
You must be posting for an American audience. Americans fall for that Republi-logic.
What I mean is not to go all in, all our eggs in that basket like Toyota had for 10 years and ended up behind their competitors.
I’m not going to write it off, but IMO we don’t have to invest into hydrogen with the same vigor we should be with electrification, renewables and storage.
All three of the sources you mentioned all lead to ammonia/hydrogen exports if we are to export our excess clean energy capacity. We can not send electricity to Europe, Japan, or Korea, but we can use our energy to produce ammonia and ship that. Or we send our electricity to those ungrateful Americans to squander.
For those unfamiliar with the chemistry, ammonia is just hydrogen and nitrogen, no carbon or oxygen at all.
The trick to transporting hydrogen is to transport it as ammonia.
"Northwestern University researchers have developed a highly effective, environmentally friendly method for converting ammonia into hydrogen. Outlined in a recent publication in the journal Joule, the new technique is a major step forward for enabling a zero-pollution, hydrogen-fueled economy.
“The idea of using ammonia as a carrier for hydrogen delivery has gained traction in recent years because ammonia is much easier to liquify than hydrogen and is therefore much easier to store and transport. Northwestern’s technological breakthrough overcomes several existing barriers to the production of clean hydrogen from ammonia.”
https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2020/11/ammonia-to-green-hydrogen/
See also
https://esgreview.net/2024/08/07/new-naturally-occurring-hydrogen-discovery-in-saskatchewan/
for the status of a mega-project in Saskatchewan.
“Southern Saskatchewan is entirely covered by the pervasive and thick Western Canadian Sedimentary Basin (WCSB), which directly overlies the crystalline Pre-Cambrian basement. The basement is the perceived source for naturally occurring hydrogen, especially where the basement rock has an ultramafic composition. There are a series of deep structures, including faults, allowing movement of gasses from the basement upwards into the WCSB. In addition to structures, a series of domes and arches add to the structural complexity of the WCSB. Natural Hydrogen migrates upward into certain geological formations where it can accumulate.”