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Cake day: August 6th, 2026

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  • Most people can be convinced of something. I have a lot of debates, both in person and online, and I’ve gotten somewhat decent at it. I think the most important thing is setting a realistic goal.

    Did I convince a group of young earth creationists that the theory of evolution by natural selection is the best explanation for the diversity of life? No I did not. Did I convince some of them that biologists aren’t a part of a satanic conspiracy, and that they’re just trying to come up with good explanations for the stuff they see? Yes, I think so.

    Did I convince a “pro-life” friend that abortion should be exclusively the host’s decision? No I did not. Did I make them recognize that drawing the line on when abortion should or should not be allowed is harder than they had assumed, and that IF the government is going to draw that line, they should at least consult some medical experts? Yes, I think so.

    On some level it might feel like it’s not enough… But there isn’t anything better, so I’ll take what I can get. Good luck out there.



  • Because I would like you to be successful in debating this issue, I need to inform you:

    That’s not a very good response. It will convince literally no one. It won’t be convincing to the person you’re debating. It won’t be convincing to people who are observing the argument. It changes absolutely nothing.

    The only effective replies are the ones that force people to think deeply:

    • What makes this wrong, specifically?

    and then, ask them to explain even more deeply every time they respond. e.g., “killing an innocent person is wrong.”

    • What makes something innocent? What makes something a person?

    If you can get them to at least admit that it’s a gray area, you’ve won.









  • Not relative to a public universal health care system, no.

    I’m saying not at all. With public universal health care, without public universal health care… it does not matter. There is a negative correlation between smoking and life expectancy.

    If your diagnosis is “we need to cut cigarette use to save lives”,

    Yes, that is a conclusion one could draw from this.

    but we’re ignoring the…

    For the purposes of discussing this correlation, it does not matter. If we have universal health care, then cutting cigarette use will save lives. If we do not have universal health care, then cutting cigarette use will save lives. Conclusion: cutting cigarette use will save lives. That is true. No amount of discussion about unrelated third variables will make that not true.

    If a third variable makes the model better, go ahead and add a third variable. But if someone doesn’t even understand the two-variable model, we should make sure they understand THAT model before we add even more stuff that they don’t understand.



  • But we can see very definitively that a higher-than-average rate of education does nothing to increase the partisan character of the voting block.

    Mormons have more bachelor degrees than average: Yes.

    Mormons are more conservative than average: Yes.

    We can see very definitively that a higher-than-average rate of education does nothing to increase the partisan character of the voting block: No.

    That’s not what this shows. The two facts, together, are not enough to show a correlation between education and conservatism or to show a lack of correlation between education and liberal/leftist attitudes. To make a claim about correlation, as you are trying to do, you have two options:

    1. Show a correlation or lack of correlation within this block,
    2. Show a correlation or lack of correlation between average education level and average political leanings, using voting blocks as data points.

    I have a perfect analogy:

    I claim that smoking will decrease your life expectancy.

    You claim that the smoking rate in the United States is 9.6%. The smoking rate in Japan is 16.4%. Life Expectancy in the United States is 79.8. Life Expectancy in Japan is 85.2. Therefore “we can see very definitively that a higher rate of smoking does nothing to decrease the life expectancy of the country”.

    No. That doesn’t show that. Because if you look at data within Japan, you will still see a lower life expectancy among the people who smoke, and if you look at data globally, using countries as data points, you will also see lower life expectancy among the countries that smoke the most.

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/smoking-rates-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/life-expectancy-by-country

    When you take broad averages like this, you very often lose useful information. In this case, just being “educated” in the abstract carries a weak correlation to political beliefs.

    That’s true, but unfortunately, once you started trying to create a more complex model, you started making mistakes. And you aren’t even an idiot. Imagine your dumbest neighbors trying to make sense of this conversation.

    No. I start off by giving you one variable correlated with one other variable. Once someone understands that, THEN we can start talking about nuance.


  • 5318008@lemmy.mltoFuck Cars@lemmy.world'Merica, with all its diversity
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    6 days ago

    Just dropping in to say that I, as an American, also look at Europe as though it’s one country with individual states. I don’t think that’s a universal rule, but I think a lot of Americans do that, in part, because we mostly hear about politics in terms of the “European Union”.

    Occasionally the news is at the country level… France’s nuclear reactors… Spain suggesting development in the military… Denmark starting conscription… but the regulations we hear about, such as regarding carbon emissions or GDPR are in terms of the EU as a whole.


  • Go into a red neighborhood, and the math changes

    No, it actually doesn’t. Within a Mormon community, I would wager we would still see that the most educated Mormons are also, ON AVERAGE, the most liberal/leftist Mormons.

    Sure, if this is the only thing you knew, there could be a Simpson’s paradox situation, but we already know what the data looks like when we count everyone as one big group. Your “exceptions” can be true, and at the same time, are not evidence against the original claim. Even IF you found that, within EVERY group, education correlates with conservatism… it would just be Simpson’s paradox, because we already know that, on the whole, education is correlated to liberal/leftist attitudes.