As it turns out, when you aren’t from somewhere that leftist thought is completely alien, you don’t have to daydream of the collapse of western civilisation to see change.
What does “western civilization” mean to you? Because usually when someone touts the importance of “western civilization”, they are standing atop a hill made up of bodies from the rampaging slaughter and plunder of colonialism and imperialism. Something you should have somewhat of an understanding from if you are from Ireland, considering its own dealings with British colonialism; what exactly is civilized about that slaughter and oppression that would have you protective of a notion of so-called western civilization?
Western civilisation includes bad and good like every other civilisation. It includes Ireland as well as Britain, Gaul as well as Rome. People who see it as nothing but imperialism would do well to remember who was “imperialed” first. As you’ve rightly spotted Ireland suffered a greatly. As an Irishman I’ll tell you I would rather you not compound matters by deciding that that erased anything positive about the culture we’re part of.
Commenting on the daydream was not a value statement. Western civilisation is… well, not exactly great for the world right now. For better or worse however, I’m in it and so are my kids. So if it’s alright with you, I’d rather work to improve it than cheer on various other forms of imperialism so that, uh, I get to see the “worse” part of “worse before it gets better”.
I don’t know where to find common ground. It feels like we are speaking two different languages and it is difficult to try to bridge that gap, if this is not on a good faith basis from the get-go, which it doesn’t appear to be.
It appears like you think people here, as some general mass that has no individuality, simply want destruction, which is the furthest thing from the truth. Do you suppose you are the only one here who lives in the west, who has self interests in not dying in horrific decline and rupture?
One of the common understandings of marxism-leninism about capitalist government and reform is not, as you make it sound, “you can never get any reforms through and I hope collapse comes quickly”. It is more like “the capitalist state will do everything in its power to cling to power and confrontation is inevitable.” So sure, work on harm reduction if you want, just don’t have illusions that it is going to save the system or something. Take the wins you can get, but also organize like you know it won’t be enough to do reforms within the capitalist system. Is that at odds with what you believe? Is it any closer to an understanding? You tell me.
What does “western civilization” mean to you? Because usually when someone touts the importance of “western civilization”, they are standing atop a hill made up of bodies from the rampaging slaughter and plunder of colonialism and imperialism. Something you should have somewhat of an understanding from if you are from Ireland, considering its own dealings with British colonialism; what exactly is civilized about that slaughter and oppression that would have you protective of a notion of so-called western civilization?
Western civilisation includes bad and good like every other civilisation. It includes Ireland as well as Britain, Gaul as well as Rome. People who see it as nothing but imperialism would do well to remember who was “imperialed” first. As you’ve rightly spotted Ireland suffered a greatly. As an Irishman I’ll tell you I would rather you not compound matters by deciding that that erased anything positive about the culture we’re part of.
Commenting on the daydream was not a value statement. Western civilisation is… well, not exactly great for the world right now. For better or worse however, I’m in it and so are my kids. So if it’s alright with you, I’d rather work to improve it than cheer on various other forms of imperialism so that, uh, I get to see the “worse” part of “worse before it gets better”.
I don’t know where to find common ground. It feels like we are speaking two different languages and it is difficult to try to bridge that gap, if this is not on a good faith basis from the get-go, which it doesn’t appear to be.
It appears like you think people here, as some general mass that has no individuality, simply want destruction, which is the furthest thing from the truth. Do you suppose you are the only one here who lives in the west, who has self interests in not dying in horrific decline and rupture?
One of the common understandings of marxism-leninism about capitalist government and reform is not, as you make it sound, “you can never get any reforms through and I hope collapse comes quickly”. It is more like “the capitalist state will do everything in its power to cling to power and confrontation is inevitable.” So sure, work on harm reduction if you want, just don’t have illusions that it is going to save the system or something. Take the wins you can get, but also organize like you know it won’t be enough to do reforms within the capitalist system. Is that at odds with what you believe? Is it any closer to an understanding? You tell me.